New Yamaha CP1 – Could this be the one?
Was it just me, or did any of you feel that 2009 was uneventful in terms of new technology introductions? It seems that the tide may be turning, however, as we’ve just concluded the NAMM show here in Southern California.
For me, the new Yamaha CP1 is amongst the most exciting product announcements, and I felt compelled to share what I’ve found to date given that so many of my readers are keyboard aficionados! Hell, we’ve been carrying on a wonderful discussion about the Roland GX for nearly two years!
The new CP1 is the flagship “no compromise” model of the newly released CP line. The early read would indicate that this could possibly be the best of all worlds – latest acoustic modeling technology putting the sounds on par with the Roland V-Piano, a brand new killer action called NW-STAGE with real wooden keys putting the authenticity of the action on par with the Kawai MP8, and just enough multi-zone midi control to make it equally versatile on stage and in studio like the Roland RD700GX… Could it be possible?
I’m very open to the possibility and can’t wait to try one out – the street price appears to be approximately $5,000 (USD) which is far from trivial, but given the specifications, not surprising and slightly under the Roland V-Piano. What strikes me about the CP1 (vs. the V-Piano) is that it appears to be a bit more versatile in the MIDI realm. The V-Piano is sorely lacking in terms of MIDI control and it’s a huge heavy beast. The CP1 is much tidier, weighs nearly 20lbs less, and has an acceptable range of MIDI controls (4 zones; 2 internal, 2 external).
I cannot comment much further without sampling the merchandise but I wanted to post up a few videos I’ve found to date. If you find others, let me know and I’ll update this post.
Here’s an overview from the 2010 Namm Show!
Here’s a 4 part video from Keyboard Magazine!
Part 1 of 4…
Part 2 of 4…
Part 3 of 4…
Part 4 of 4…
January 23rd, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Don’t forgot to take a look at the modeling expansion board for the RD700GX. I think Roland has been secretly waiting for their competition to release something like the new CP series for a while. It turns out that the RD has always had the hybrid sample and modeling capabilities of the CP line. The new K-RD700GX1 upgrade is based on V-Piano modeling technology, just not fully modeled and therefore doesn’t cost nearly as much. I hear retail for the upgrade to an existing RD will be around $350 or less. It includes an SRX add-on board and a firmware update. It’ll be interesting to see how the upgraded RD compares to the new CP line.
January 27th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Completely agree and thanks for bringing this to the foreground, Jim! For me, I’ll probably buy this straight away and do a comparison test before opting in the CP1, but I must admit, it’s the new Yamaha action that has me very intrigued…. I always felt the sounds and control of the GX combined with the MP8 style wooden action would be THE combo of choice… Yamaha has really come close to “specifying” what I, personally, consider ideal… Won’t know until we get our hands on one!
February 10th, 2010 at 10:27 am
Adrian, a comment regarding the action of the CP1 and CP5: according to a Yamaha rep on a couple of other forums, he has claimed that the action is not graded, but a balance between an electric piano and an acoustic piano.
That said, I think the ability to tweak the electric pianos may alone make this instrument worth the effort for a live gig with Rhodes and Wurlis and even acoustic models. As far as authenticity to a real acoustic piano action, the MP8 may yet still have the edge. Anyone who needs more proof of that should try looking on Ebay for a used MP8. They’ll find they are exceedingly rare for that reason alone.
Also, on a side note: Kawai is apparently coming up with new digital pianos in the next few months. Hopefully they’ll address the issues with the MP8-II action as well as some of the sounds. 2010 is shaping up to be an incredible year for pianos.
By the way, thank you for the other excellent thread on the RD700GX.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:42 am
Hi Michael… Thanks a lot for sharing this information (on the CP1 and CP5). Interesting: a non-graded wooden action? I’m not sure I agree with that, but will give it benefit of doubt until I roadtest. You’re right though; it would give the MP8 the edge… and VERY GOOD POINT about trying to find one (MP8-I) on eBay… virtually non-existent. I wasn’t aware of Kawai’s plans… if that’s the case, bravo because they were soooooo close with the MP8 save the sounds and as noted, I have no intention of parting with mine :)
February 11th, 2010 at 11:01 am
I needed a really good piano for mobile performances. After 1 minute of playing I bought the CP1. The key to my “must have” is the possibility to alter the hammer from soft to hard etc. You can listen to the different piano sounds at:
http://www.solopianodiary.com/yamaha-cp1.html
February 11th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
COOL! A new CP1 owner has joined the conversation! Beyond our interest in the sounds, Christian, can you comment on the action? In particular, we were recently informed by Michael that the new NW ACTION is non-graded? Is this the case, and moreover, did you notice any compromise as a result? I like that statement: buying sight on seen after one minute of playing. It really works that way, doesn’t it!? Virtually every board I’ve owned was decided upon in less than 5 min… 1 min is VERY encouraging!!! Keep in touch, and thank you for sharing!
February 12th, 2010 at 7:39 pm
The keys are very special I would say, If you play them without volume then you don’t get feeling. They are fast and expressive, (like NORD stage 88) as with all keyboards or pianos they have to be played for longer time to let your fingers understand the dynamics. I am a soft solo piano player and I was blown away by the synergy between keys and sound. IF Yamaha have the guts to do a “only pure piano” then the action would be different, the rhodes and DX etc probably thought of rather much in terms of key action. It is an enormous difference compared to the N3 piano. (My favourite, but a bit heavy for mobile :-) I was talking to CLAVIA the day before purchase and I wanted their new NORD PIANO, but it will not hit the streets before late april. I had the bucks and by nature I am very impatient. Could not wait…
February 12th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Thanks for the further update and elaboration, Christian! For what it’s worth, I too, believe that patience is overrated :) Good job and all the best!
February 26th, 2010 at 10:27 pm
I am always looking for additional information on this subject as well as others. I found your site very informative and well written. Your layout is easy to follow and I appreciate your contribution to the topic.
March 1st, 2010 at 2:24 am
Hi,
Do you think the CP1 could replace an ordinary real piano? My Yamaha C1 is a pile of crap and I can’t afford a C5
thanks
Darren
March 2nd, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Hi Darren,
I think the answer is always going to be a proverbial – it depends. It’s a very objective call, and has a lot to do with your experience on an acoustic. In my case, I grew up playing on a Steinway grand, and suffice it to say that no digital piano to date comes close – but I had to contend with close quarters and/or portability, etc, then something like the CP1 would be the best candidate especially today.
What I can say, IMO, is that appears to be the new bar. Shipments are just now arriving in So Cali so I intend to try one out shortly, and I’ll update my post accordingly.
Hope this helps!
-Adrian
March 4th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
Hi Adrian,
I just bought the CP-1 yesterday! I’m still in shock!!! I was not prepared for the experience. To anyone considering this keyboard, make sure you listen with excellent speakers. In my studio I use four ADAM P22A’s in quad stereo together with an ADAM sub 10 MK2 subwoofer. In front of me I fill the middle area with 2 ADAM A5’s. My speakers are worth about $10,000 Canadian (would you buy a Ferrari and put cheap tires on it?) :)
The CP-1 is the holy grail of digital pianos right now! It is a remarkable achievement! The touch is extremely responsive and just feels nice to the touch. I can finally practice my classical repertoire on this piano. (I used to own a Yamaha C7 grand). Here’s a hint… I tried layering CP-1 with Pianoteq software in order to get cross-string sympathetic vibration. I didn’t want Pianoteq to be very loud at all so as not to muddy up the CP-1 sound. So on Pianoteq I increased the sympathetic vibration effect to the max and lowered the overall volume way down. Now when I play the CP1 I get cross-string resonance (i.e. if I hold down a low octave quietly with the left hand and play staccato notes in the right hand, the right hand notes cause harmonics to sound from the low strings! Just like a real grand piano). I’m planning to layer this with the Yamaha Motif rack module. EVERYBODY buy one today. Sell your house if you have to. This piano DELIVERS far beyond your wildest dreams. I think the CP-1 could qualify as a work of art! I can finally sleep soundly now knowing that such a piano experience awaits me each day! Really, it’s that good. Stunning clarity. Solid sound. Expressive beyond belief.
March 5th, 2010 at 6:11 am
Oi Michael!
Congratulations and thank you for such an impassioned report on the CP-1. I think many of us, well at least I, suspected this would raise the bar but it’s great to hear this from an owner and not a marketer. Clever arrangement using Pianoteq layering, too! Keep in touch with us and I’m sure before long we’ll have a few others like you joining too!
All the best,
Adrian
March 6th, 2010 at 10:15 am
Hi again Adrian,
It’s been only a few days with the CP-1 and I feel like I’m dreaming! I have been chasing this digital piano experience for many, many years and finally I feel like I have an instrument that far surpasses my expectations. I appreciate your website and reading my lengthy review of the CP-1. This is a milestone!
I must reiterate that in order to experience this effect one must have an excellent monitoring system. Not that the CP-1 needs any enhancement from speakers, but that it relies on the speakers to bring forth it’s glorious, finely articulated subtleties. The speakers should be flat response and the room should not be too reverberant with good acoustics. When I was in the music store they connected the CP-1 to a pair of Yamaha HS80M speakers. I felt there was a bit of coloration in the sound, but the CP-1 “effect” came through for me but on a smaller, distorted scale. It was only when I got the CP-1 home that the shockwave took place in me. I mean I was literally stunned at the extreme realism and subtle control over parameters. (BTW, part of the reason I’m writing this is to give back to Yamaha for this remarkable achievement. If this helps them to continue their fine work, all the better!).
I’m a professional gigging cocktail pianist. I have played on many fine pianos including Steinway, Bechstein, Yamaha, Fazioli, Bosendorfer and I know what a fine piano experience should be like. I have played many, many actions. For example, I was backstage in Toronto at Roy Thomson Hall (Toronto Symphony home). I located the 9 foot Steinway D reserved for concert artists and played it. The action was the best I have EVER encountered on a piano. The responsiveness was incredible. You could practically breath on the keys and get a response of pianississimo.
Now the CP-1 has a most satisfying action. It is neither heavy nor too light. The keys and their shape just feel so good to handle. The action obviously is ‘tuned in’ to the sound generator in such a way as be ultra-responsive. Fast repetitions are amazingly responsive. I found that no matter how soft I played (and I mean ultra slow motion), the CP-1 produced a sound at the bottom of key depression. Which is a good thing considering that playing ultra-soft on a piano is one of the greatest challenges.
The pedals are solid and responsive. The soft pedal is not too overly stated. I really like that. All the cables on the 3 pedals have 3 pin jacks meaning that all 3 pedals have continuous capability.
As I write this I’m just shaking my head in disbelief. I actually almost gave up believing that this could happen. I have a home studio with a Music XPC model S computer, running ProTools with the 003 control surface. As I said earlier, in my studio I use four ADAM P22A’s in quad stereo together with an ADAM sub 10 MK2 subwoofer. In front of me I fill the middle area with 2 ADAM A5’s. As an audio command controller I use the Mackie “Big Knob” Studio Command System. I have two 20 inch computer monitors for the recording software and plug-ins. The piano is situated to my left, and the computer is in front of me. The speaker stereo orientation is that I have front and rear speakers (like in a car). The pair on my left is the left signal and the pair on my right is the right signal. The subwoofer is two feet ahead on the floor positioned to maximize frequency response. On the Mackie there are 3 speaker line outs; A, B, C with corresponding buttons. Each is a stereo out. So my front pair of Adam P22A’s are on output A. Back pair of Adam P22A’s are on output B. And the subwoofer receive a stereo output from C (it sums the signal). This means that when I’m facing the computer, I have the proper stereo orientation but when I turn facing left to play the CP-1 my stereo orientation is wrong. So I built a switch box for the A and B lines (2 DPDT switches) such that it corrects the stereo orientation. By switching on or off the A or B outputs I can have sound only in front of me or also behind me or just behind me. I can turn the subwoofer on or off. Each output has a volume adjustment on the back of the Mackie to fine tune the experience.
My speakers are about 3 feet from my ears. I found that when playing a digital piano that there was a lack of sound energy in the front middle. So, not wanting to spend so much more money on another pair of Adam P22A’s I tried small cheaper speakers such as Fostex. But they added coloration and ruined the subtlety of the experience. Then I put a pair of Adam A5’s (new product) in the middle area, about 2 feet apart. This just completes the sound so well, I feel like I hear a nine foot soundboard in front of me!
Okay, so one must be thinking about all the cost of not only the piano, but the whole speaker system I’m using as well. Maybe thinking why not just buy a real grand piano? But I use the speakers for the studio as well as just plain listening to music. I can practice on the CP-1 anytime without disturbing anyone (I use AKG K240df headphones). I can turn up the volume to any level. I can combine the acoustic grand sound with electric sounds (the other sounds on the CP-1 are also INCREDIBLE). It will never need tuning!
One concern I have is regarding the action… Will the CP-1 ever need regulating? Will the keyboard ever fail me? What is the lifespan of these keys I wonder? I believe there is no aftertouch built into this action at all, correct? I can record the MIDI output anytime. I can input MIDI from my computer and listen to this glorious realism.
The CP-1 is about getting things right. Really right. It’s QUALITY sound I have not heard from any other digital instrument to date. I tried the roland V-piano. The RD700sx. And many others. They all lack an intense acoustic, sonic clarity that the CP-1 delivers. The pianos focus on Yamaha’s sound and it’s a fantastic piano. Yes, the Steinway has that darker, rich character and the Bosendorfer has a sparkle etc., but the Yamaha’s in the CP-1 are a commanding piano experience, truer to the real Yamaha concert grand sound than on any other Yamaha product. I noticed that the CP-1 is better in sound than the Motif. I directly compared it with the S90sx in my studio. The S90sx has a newly sample S6 piano, but it pales in comparison to the CP-1 S6 piano. Same for the CFIII samples. The CP-1 just has miles more realism, clarity, and responsiveness (I even tried the two keyboards using MIDI and using only the action of the CP-1). I was able to compare the action of the S90xs which is spongier and slower, and plastic feeling (although I like it as well).
I urge everyone to experience the CP-1, but hope you experience it with good speakers. You WILL be amazed. You WILL become a believer. Sell whatever you have to to get this piano (not your children though). Then enter a new realm of piano experience. Wish you all the best! You WON’T be disappointed. I’d love to hear more comments from others. Thanks again Adrian for this wonderful blog!
Michael
March 6th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Wow.. Thank you, Michael, for writing such an extensive additional commentary. I have question for you: Would you mind if I were to take the combination of your two comments and mold those into a blog post – giving you the appropriate credits, of course? I ask this because I high-end gear folks tend to be one’s visiting this site and I think everyone would find your recent experience – as an early adopter – extremely helpful. This information will get significantly more coverage if we convert it a post vs. inside of comments. Let me know your thoughts?
Thanks again, Adrian
March 6th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Hi again,
I just realized that there is another Michael who posted previous to my posts. I just wanted to clarify. I’m the Michael that began posting at March 4th with the Adam speakers… Thanks!
March 6th, 2010 at 10:36 am
Hi again Adrian,
By all means please post my comments as you wish! Now, I just HAVE to get back to the CP-1 and play… it’s just that inspiring!
Michael
March 6th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Hi again everyone,
I’m the Michael with the Adam speakers… Just a quick note… make sure your WHOLE system is plugged in with balanced cables. From the CP-1 through to the speakers. There will be absolutely NO noise of any kind and the signal quality is higher. Of course, you all knew that!
Michael
March 8th, 2010 at 11:28 am
Oi Michael… Thanks for the thumbs up – will aggregate your excellent commentary into a separate blog post shortly! Have any pics of your new baby u wish to share?
March 9th, 2010 at 5:52 pm
Hi Michael, I read your post that said “I can finally practice my classical repertoire on this piano”. How do you compare the action to the Roland V?
I mostly play classical and am considering the Roland V, the CP1 and the Kawai MP8ii. I’ve tried all except the CP1.
From your comments and a lot of others on various websites, I’m leaning towards the CP1 but wanted to hear your opinion on the action for the acoustic pianos and more specifically classical music.
Thanks!
March 9th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
Hi Adrian,
I’ll be happy to send some studio pics soon. What’s the best way to upload to you?