about the Stage Piano CP5 CP50 & CP1
in FRENCH

data base : videos , PDF , support , links , comments , tests etc….

CP5 Yamaha – Tout savoir – Compil de liens utiles
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http://www.audiokeys.net/forum/showthread.php/23766-CP5-Yamaha-Tout-savoir-Compil-de-liens-utiles

NEWS :
CP5 Yamaha – CP5 OS Updater V1.20 18 avril 2011
http://www.audiokeys.net/forum/showthread.php/25139-CP5-Yamaha-CP5-OS-Updater-V1.20-18-avril-2011
comments in french

I brought home a Roland RD700NX today! I was trying it in the store with my headphones and was quite impressed. I wanted to hear it in my studio and compare it side by side with the CP-1. The result of my early hours of testing was incredibly eye-opening! I did all sorts of auditions testing all the piano sounds and tweaking the velocity touch. AB’ing CP-1 and RD700. I love the string resonance on the roland and the very ‘lively’, ’stringy’, woody tone.

There are three main categories of acoustic piano on the Roland: “Concert”, “Studio”, “Brilliant”. Concert is dark, woody and full of character. Studio is softer, smoother, smaller. Brilliant is very transparent yet can morph into an Antique piano or an amazing Bosendorfer clone!

I could go on and on about the auditions. The roland electric pianos are good but a far cry from the depth of the CP-1 electric pianos. Both CP-1 and Roland were neck in neck as far as acoustic pianos go. As for the actions…. well the Roland feels much closer to a grand piano action. Yet I love the lighter, responsive action of the CP-1 as well.

I’m keeping them both by the looks of things. Each contributes a whole piano world of it’s own and the Roland has a lot of other excellent sounds as well. The CP-1 has the best CP-80 piano as well. Having two excellent 88 note weighted keyboards will be great. I can play piano duets with a friend and the pianos can have their own differing and complementing tones.

I highly recommend the Roland RD700NX for it’s excellent pianos and touch. I also praise the CP-1 for it’s excellent pianos and unique feel (and awesome E. pianos). I also ordered the 3-pedal unit for the roland as well.

Can’t tell you all enough about how heavenly this experience has been. BTW, I played the Ivory samples with both keyboards and the roland touch gives Ivory that real authentic feel for the Steinway and Bosendorfer. I emphasize that you MUST use good quality studio speakers.

Now, I must get my hands back on those keyboards!

Cheers,

Michael

Sounds like the Roland studio monitors are sounding great (I’m not familiar with them). My only concern is with their somewhat low power output of 60 Watts. Be careful not to overdrive them, and yes I would definitely recommend adding a subwoofer. With the sub make sure you set the cutoff frequency quite low so as not to muddy up the low mid notes in the overall sound. Keep the subwoofer volume WAY DOWN! It should only be a subtle effect. Experiment until you’re happy with the consistency octave to octave. And don’t position the speakers too far apart (not much further than the ends of the keyboard) or you’ll experience a “hole” in the middle of the listening area. I actually added two smaller ADAM A5 speakers there with volume way down. BTW, if you’re budget allows, I would HIGHLY recommend the ADAM A5 as a superior lower budget main studio monitor!

Enjoy your ‘emancipated’ CP-1!

Michael

• I tried headphones – the sound is even and perfect all over – which tells me the piano is good but my output/speaker system isn’t.

• I tried cheap studio monitors (Edirol) – fairly good sound (for the price) but nowhere near good enough – lacks punch – and some odd artifacts still.

• I tried mid/high range studio monitors (Roland DS-7, 60 watt bi-amp) – balanced cables – and finally every piece fell into place! It’s a whole new instrument!

Even if it can’t match the bass and loudness of the Bose L1, the sound is so much richer at half the cost (of the L1) , that I switched immediately. No more artifacts, no notes screaming or partly muted. And with the right positioning of the speakers, I also get the same panning from left (bass) to right (treble) as I’m used to from an acoustic piano – and on some of the built in tremolo effects. This was completely missing from my mono Bose setup which gave me the sound from one point above my head. I had really underestimated the importance of this for a fully immersive playing experience. In a stage setting, it wouldn’t matter, but for home and practice use, it is crucial!

So next step is to add a sub-woofer to get those few more dB from the bass octaves, and I’m ready to really start loving this terrific instrument. I can still turn down the treble on my Bose and use the analog output from the piano to play the lowest frequencies, it sounds terrific, but I have a feeling a dedicated sub will be better still.

I have no doubt that buying even more expensive and powerful speakers would produce an even richer and “better” sound. Some professional studio musicians I’ve discussed this with did recommend Genelec speakers for a soft brilliant sound, not breaking my budget, but I will stick to my Rolands. I bet I could go on fine tuning the sounds and testing out different speakers, but for now I’d rather spend my time playing the CP1.

Lessons learned:
• PA systems belongs on stages, not in home studios.
• A piano is a STEREO – not a mono – instrument

Thanks for your input Michael, it was really helpful.

My recommendation…. get yourself some good quality studio monitors and use balanced cables to set it all up… after all, you wouldn’t put economy tires on a Ferrari would you? Also pay attention to your acoustics as well.

Best of luck… the smooth excellent sound is totally in the CP-1 waiting to get out clearly!

Michael

Slipstack

sounds to me like your speaker/room acoustics might possibly be off, producing an uneven frequency response? Speakers or room accentuating too many mids? Just a thought…

Michael

I’d love to answer in great detail, but I’m way too busy after moving residences… I miss my CP-1 so badly as I haven’t been able to unbox it yet! It’s been 3 weeks since the move and my studio is still in boxes everywhere! Can’t wait to get set up again in a bigger and better location!

I bought a CP-1 a week ago, partly based upon the good reviews and rave found in this forum. I’ve played classical /contemporary music on lots of acoustic pianos/grand pianos & rhodes pianos over the last 30 years, although never professionally.

Overall I’m greatly satisfied with the instrument. It has a fabulous dynamic, the keys suit my playing style perfectly, and the menus and controllers are – not easy or self-explaining, but – not too hard to understand and use either. The Electric piano sounds are fabulous, although not always quite “authentic”, to the ones they are supposed to replicate.

But still am getting this sneaky feeling that it isn’t as great as I had expected it to be:

1: The keys B4-D5 (and a few others) does give a noticeably louder tone than the ones below and above on the scale, and in some music peaces they just “scream out” so off volume, that for me it just spoils the music. I can’t for my bare life adjust only the affected keys (EQ or something), I have tried to look as deep as I get in the manual, but I can’t find any lead to how this can be adjusted.

So my question is: Is there any way to adjust the volume/sensitivity/output of the keys individually?

2: The key F4 is opposite: it is considerably weaker in sound than the adjacent keys, and has to be pressed harder to not disappear inbetween the rest.
The question above also applies to this : Can the volume (gain) be adjusted individually?

3: The [CP80 Studio] tuning below C2 seems to go more and more off scale the lower it gets. If I press the Bb0 key on any acoustic piano, and then switches to [CP80] setting, it’s very clear that the tone is nearly half a tone too low, and this makes it useless. Overall, the entire CP80 tuning below C2 seems to go more and more off scale the lower it gets.

Can the piano presets be tuned individually, or parts of the keyboard be “stretched” :) ? (ok yes I know this is hard for me to explain, I want the A440 (or any given key) to be the anchor point, and the left side to be tuned lower, more and more towards the left, as it seems to get more and more out of scale.)

4: What’s the trick to get the pitch wheel to work? The only sound is has any affect on is the preset wah-piano (on Bank C14), on all others it makes no difference at all. The Manual doesn’t mention any preset it doesn’t work on, so my question is: is this normal?

5: Is there any way a key can be pressed and produce NO sound at all? This has been possible on every other piano I have ever played.

6: And last: Seriously – when changing from one sound (program) to another, is it too much to ask for that it finishes the sound already played, and then switches setting? The half second full stop and silence between preset programs is such a party killer sometimes. I for one will tell Yamaha this loud and clear at any given chance – and anybody else who might consider buying the CP-1. This is not acceptable in 2011.

OK, enough ranting from me, I really hope anyone can take the time to answer me, I seriously do want to love this piano, but I can’t just yet. Maybe it just needs a tiny adjustment or two, and I hope any of you wizards can help me a bit on the way.

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Slipstack

Thanks

I’ve got a real challenge for you.

If I use Logic Pro version 9 (the latest) and also my Roland RD700NX.

How do I get logic 9 to use the RD700NX as a sound generator for the outputted midi signal from Logic 9. I want to trigger the Brilliant grand or a tweaked Brilliant grand in my user area on the NX.

Thus far I have managed to get Logic 9 to trigger the NX but it will only trigger 1 standard midi piano sound. However if i press midi on the NX and go to the label PC and change the value I can get some standard midi sounds(this is found by pressing midi and scrolling across, you can change the PC value from 0-127).

I can not work out at all how to trigger the built in sounds. Surely this should be simple?

Here’s an interesting post I found about tweaking the CP1 acoustic piano to give it more “life”. I haven’t tried it yet but I intend to. It sounds very interesting. It’s posted by ‘kenchan’ on Dec 20-2010 from the following website:

http://forums.rolandclan.com/?action=show_thread&thread=30262&fid=2&page=last

“over the weekend i programmed the CP1’s 2nd tone generator to sound the 2nd and 3rd string resonance effect on my piano sounds.

one main weakness of the CP1 is the sample loop you can hear after the tone decays a little bit on the piano’s. (no issue on the EP’s). it’s an annoying lifeless loop. so wat i did was took the 2nd tone generator using the same piano as the 1st generator but ran a softer hammer setting at about 50% or less of the volume, made the keyoff and release so that it does not affect the 1st generator tone and finally, added chorus with slow speed. i detuned the 2nd generator a little bit and fine tuned the chorus and volume level until i was able to put some life in the loop without making it sound artificial or abrupt. it’s a very subtle touch but makes all the difference…. if you’re picky like me i suppose.

took me like 2hrs to get it to where i was satisified but it sounds great now. :p im still working on the S6 sample as it has a more pronounced lifeless loop, but my main piano, the CF, sounds fantastic. :) i should’ve thought about this sooner. lol

ofcourse i checked polyphony playing different passages repetitively hitting the same key, hitting one low note with damper pedal and playing a long arppegiation with pedal continuously down, etc. no issue.

after playing with my VPiano (and the supernatural RD at the stores), that lifeless loop kept bugging me even more. roland did a great job on the decay on the RD’s.”

PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF THIS HELPS!

Michael

I did not read your piece the correct way so we both agree that the CP1 is amazing and the Motif, in a different way, is also (for me) 1 of the best synths today.

You wrote “To my understanding, the CP1 and CP5 acoustic pianos are supposed to be identical (are they not?) as well as the keyboard action.” and a lot of people on other forums agree to this statement. Personally I agree about the action but I just be amateur player so I let the profs just the action but as the sounds are concerned I don’t think they are identical. I think I can hear much more dynamic in the sounds of the CP1 compared to the CP5.

So I find this strange that on many forums people don’t hear the difference.

Cheers Effie

Congratulations on your CP1 purchase! I wish you many years of inspired playing and I can tell you firsthand that the CP1 has inspired me greatly!

My first suggestion right off is that you use the absolute best speaker system you can afford to monitor with. I mean studio quality speakers. They should also put out a fair amount of power which keeps peak transients clean. I find that when you approach the decibels of a real grand piano, the speakers can be tested to their max, piano sound being rich in sharp attack and harmonically complex.

Careful reading of the manual should give you a basic guideline of what the buttons and knobs do individually, but it lacks in suggestions as to how to be creative with all the subtle interactions of the various preamp, modulation, reverb, and eq parameters. Not to mention tweaks you can do to the velocity which shifts how you perceive the key/sound experience. Of course a major adjustment is hammer hardness.

For example, you could just press the first concert CFIII preset and then experiment with the hammer hardness. Sounds simple enough… but when you add to the tweaking, adjustment of velocity (found by hitting ‘Utility’ then adjusting the 4th knob ‘VelCurve’) through normal, soft, hard, wide, you add another dimension to the control you have over the exact feel/hammer hardness/sound possibilities. And that’s just a SIMPLE adjustment! Toss in a bit of EQ tweaking (press and hold down the Pre-Amp button for 2 seconds until you see the EQ adjustments for Bass, Mid, Treble) and you can even fine tune it still. Don’t forget to lock these changes into the User Bank for future and quick recall!

For what seems like a ‘basic’ piano instrument on the outside, the CP1 is loaded with adjustability at the quick touch of a button or knob. Something as simple as comparing the two grand pianos (CFIII and S6) becomes an afternoons journey into the subtleties available in sound character, hammer hardness, velocity feel, ambience colouration, EQ etc…. and that’s just ACOUSTIC pianos! Check out the amazing subtleties of Rhodes instruments (sampled with various types of hammers, preamps, and amps) to be amazed at the super fine tolerances and hard work that Yamaha has put into this keyboard. Check out the CP-80 (I used to own one…) I haven’t found a better rendition anywhere else!

Once again, make sure you invest in as excellent quality studio speakers as possible (see my setup above for example in a previous post) to hear the fine nuances of sound from this most amazing digital piano that doesn’t sound digital! A lot of discovering the CP1 comes from experimentation, but yes you need to know the principals at work in the sound ‘chain’ and how they interact. Thankfully Yamaha has made this chain easily accessible and visually user friendly. The CP1 is an excellent combination of simple, intuitive interface with powerful tweakable parameters below.

Hope that helps! All the best discovering this amazing CP1 digital piano!

Michael

I just bought a CP1, and it is great. But the manual assumes more experience with this kind of instrument than I have. Do you have a suggestion as how to find someone who I might hire to teach me how to get the most of modifying it to sound how I want it to. I’m just going to use it for practice, so most of the bells and whistles are not why I bought it. I just needed the best acoustic feel I could find in a DP. The guys at the store were pretty clueless.

I live in NYC, and there must be people who’d be interested. Now how to find them…

Thanks.

Hi Effenix. Your comment above seems to have two different questions… First you’re comparing CP1 with CP5. Then you’re comparing Motif XF7 with CP1. Not sure what your impression of my previous post was…

The post above (December 22nd, 2010 at 10:32 pm) was actually not my words, but taken from a ‘pianoworld’ post. The pianoworld writer actually quoted what a Yamaha rep had told him regarding the differences between Motif XF and CP1 technologies.

To my understanding, the CP1 and CP5 acoustic pianos are supposed to be identical (are they not?) as well as the keyboard action. I own the CP1 but haven’t spent much time on the CP5 in the store beyond 15 minutes (with bad amplification system). I also own the MOTIF xS7. I certainly see a world of difference between CP1 piano and Motif piano (CFIII). The CP1 has a rich full-bodied piano sound which is very ‘organic’ feeling, truly sometimes fools me into thinking I’m at a real grand! The XS has a great piano ’sound’ that has a different character and somewhat synthesized timbre (slightly). Actually I rather like the XS piano character for its cutting ‘edge’ attack and sparkly upper notes, but I find the low mid to mid area ‘clouded’ sounding. This is like comparing apples to oranges! In this day and age of amazing piano samples (we’re getting so close!) who’s complaining???

The other day I hauled out one of my vintage synths to assess whether or not to sell it. It’s the Roland G-1000 arranger/synth/rompler/MIDI file player. It has 76 ’semi’ weighted keys (same size key-width as grand piano… Motif keys are slightly less wide). G-1000 is vintage from the 1990’s, but when you hear the piano sample buried within a mix, it’s quite remarkable! I plugged the CP1 into the G1000 via MIDI and actually re-discovered that piano all over again! I played it for quite a while. I had never actually played that vintage piano through excellent studio monitors and only now could really hear how excellent it really was for it’s time. Yet it has a rough character and a ‘raw’ sampled response. Then when I went back to playing the CP1 sounds, that only made the CP1 shine even more! You can really appreciate development in technology. I really recommend this exercise to anyone who has any negative things to say about todays piano sounds! Just roll out your old keyboard pianos and play for about an hour or so… then jump back onto your CP1, Nord, Roland, Kawaii etc…. mind-boggling!

BTW, the G1000 has a particular Italian accordion sound that I simply cannot part with! I haven’t heard it anywhere else! It’s a very brittle, nostalgiac, piercing tone like nothing else. I don’t want to sample it, so I’ll keep the keyboard. Also the keybed feels great, the hundreds of MIDI files that came in the ZIP drive are priceless as well as the ‘human feel’ grooves… It was also very cool to play the CP1 via the G1000 keybed! It’s VERY responsive and superfast for repetitions!

Back to the CP1… anyone who has spent a moderate amount of time playing the CP1 will know the ‘organicness’ of this keyboard, particularly the excellent connection between the action and sound, that is simply ADDICTIVE to play. The Rhodes, DX7, Wurly, and CP-80 sounds are simply and incredibly as real it can possibly get as well.

The CP1 is WORTH IT’S WEIGHT IN GOLD!

Looking forward to this fantastic new year!

Michael

I own both a CP1 and a Motif XF7 and I personally think the XF is one of the best synths ever but I still hear a differences between the CP1 and the XF in piano sounds.

Maybe I am to old to hear it :)

http://www.kawai.de/ca93_en.htm

from:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1575130/Yamaha_Motif_XS8_vs_Roland_Fan.html

“In my view there is no better option today for a keyboard than the Yamaha XF8. I found the piano sounds to be equal to the CP5 or the Roland RD700 with the supernatural piano. I owned both and currently have the XF and the 90XS.

The XF has a number of major advantages over the XS and that is the flash memory. There are many sound libraries available.

For those of you that doubt the XF can produce the same piano sound as the CP1/CP5. Go to GC and play the S6 piano on both. I simply could not tell the difference. In fact, a Yamaha representative replied to my question, “Is the S6 Piano the same in XF and CP1/CP5?” by stating:

Excellent question. The answer is no. While the S6 is one of (many) Yamaha acoustic grand pianos, much like the CFIIIS is another model of acoustic grand piano, the CFIII and the S6 pianos found in the CP1 and CP5 are not based on AWM2 sampled data. The CFIII and S6 that appear in the Motif XF are AWM2 sampled data.

So there are two entirely different technologies involved. The Motif XF (AMW2) utilizes a familiar velocity and key mapping system where digital recording of piano strikes are stored digitally and reproduced when a key-on event requests data from a given Keybank. A KEYBANK is defined as a Note Range (that a sample is asked to cover) and a Velocity Range (that the sample is asked to cover). If you strike middle “C” at a velocity of 63 the sample-playback based Motif XF will return a specific recorded note. If you increase your velocity on the same middle “C” and strike the key at a velocity of 113, that velocity will cause a different recorded sample to play. The XF versions of the CFIII (9 ft Yamaha acoustic) and the S6 (6’11” Yamaha acoustic) are based on very familiar sample-playback technology.

The CP1 and CP5’s CFIII and S6 piano recreations are based on Spectral Component Modeling. The velocity swapping and key note mapping paradigm of traditional sample playback technology is not used in the recreations of these acoustic instruments, at all.

Playing them for a time should answer this for you. While, of course, playing a piano is very personal thing, I can only tell you of my experience playing velocity based samples (like AWM2) and playing the modeled (SCM) acoustic recreations. The (SCM) models ‘speak’ differently – the experience is more holistic in terms of sounding like an ‘individual’ playing a piano. You don’t feel like there is the same maximum and minimum as you do with velocity based samples – although I’m sure there is some theoretical max/min response happening – it does not ‘feel’ the same when playing the modeled pianos. In the right speaker cabinets (I have MSP7 Studios) at the right volume and position – there are times the experience is as close as you can get to feeling like you are playing a piano. I’ve mentioned previously here, I played the CP1 through some monitors that were $4500 (each)… That literally had me drooling, although I cannot work it out to make that a permanent situation… I’m extremely happy with the MSP7 Studios)

Buried in a mix with a ton of other instruments it might be difficult to tell (as it is with any piano in a mix with tons of other instruments). But when performing a solo piano piece, or in a more piano appropriate music (acoustic) setting, is where you really experience the difference between sample-playback and the modeling technologies.

Some will hear the difference immediately, and be captivated, others will not… this is the nature of music (and technologies). But trust me, the technologies used to recreate the pianos is entirely different – two entirely different approaches to reproducing the acoustic pianoforte. One is state-of-the-art, the other is cutting-edge.

Hope that helps.”

TESTING OUT THE ROLAND RD700NX

Today, my music dealer informed me that the Roland RD700NX had arrived and was on the showroom floor awaiting my scrutiny! Well, I have been greatly anticipating this experience after hearing so much about it, and wondering how it compares to my Yamaha CP1. So I grabbed my studio headphones (AKG K240DF) and headed to the store… but just before I left I made sure to play my CP1 in order to inform my fingers for comparison…

When I arrived the Roland piano was on a solid stand and had a Roland sustain pedal (continuous, not just a switch) under it. I plugged in my headphones (since they usually just plug keyboards into stage amps in mono!) and dialed up the 1st preset: “Concert Grand”. I sunk my fingers into what seemed like as real a grand piano keyboard as I’ve ever played then…. Yes!!! Very impressive touch and sound… a Winner right away!

I then proceeded to play for about an hour and a half, mostly the 2 grand pianos (large and small). I played through many genres of music (classical, jazz, pop,….) I must admit that the action is as true to a real piano as I’ve ever experienced on a digital piano. I looked for the slight ‘click’ feel emulating the escapement, and yes there it was in a subtle way. Still not sure why this is a desirable action attribute… maybe it helps ‘put the brakes on’ when playing soft? I’m really not sure I would miss this (it’s not found on the Yamaha CP-1). The keys don’t appear to have any real wood imbedded below…

I looked for the ‘graded hammer’ action i.e. the keys feel heavier as you go up the keyboard, but didn’t feel this. For example, I played a rapid 5 finger scale up and down at each C position up the piano. I sat in each position about 10 little up/down scales. I even transposed the keyboard so that each C position sounded at middle C so as not to be distracted by the octave register. I even turned off the volume and just whacked the keys! Still I could not perceive ANY difference in weight from low keys to high keys. (I don’t see listed anywhere that this Roland keyboard has a graded hammer action).

I was pleasantly surprised to hear “string resonance” effect while holding down a bass C quietly then slamming down a staccato C major triad at middle C. This is sadly missing on the CP1.

I found the Roland action extremely responsive and a joy to play! I dare say it might be slightly more responsive than the Yamaha CP1, but the comparison is redundant since the CP1 action has it’s own strengths and unique excellent playability suited to both the acoustic and electric pianos within (I simply love the CP1 action). On the Roland, I was hoping to find the “holy grail of keyboard repetition” and alas it was pretty good but not much different than the CP1 (both keyboards allow you to restrike the key about an eighth of an inch below starting position).

I found the rest of the tones included on the Roland (clav, strings, brass, etc..) not that spectacular. Many sounded too synthesized (I much prefer Motif sounds).

Of course I realize that there is a sizeable cost difference in these instruments. Honestly, for my very first impression, the Roland RD700NX was extremely impressive mainly for the smooth pianistic action and the 2 main piano sounds. I was extremely tempted to take it home and place it next to the CP1 but that will have to wait until the new year! IF I ever do add the Roland to my setup, it will be solely and primarily for the piano action which I suspect at this very premature trial is much better suited to playing classical piano repertoire. That’s nearly $3000 Canadian to spend primarily on a piano action! This whole experiment needs further scrutiny in the new year. I would like to closely compare side by side the Roland and CP1 in my studio over my studio speakers. Both grand piano sounds are very rich and inspiring to play, although the CP1 Rhodes sounds are so much better IMHO. I am greatly concerned about the issue of key wear on the Roland… if anyone could elaborate more on this issue, it is a real possible dealbreaker for me.

Collecting digital instruments and creating a digital musical environment is complex and sure has it’s challenges! But ohhhhhh so many pleasures and choices!

Thank you Roland and Yamaha for such magnificent instruments (have you guys considered working TOGETHER?). Share a few of your secrets to each other and create the ultimate digital piano for us! With all due respect, I applaud your technical genius!

Thank you Adrian for this excellent site which I regularly admire and learn from.

Happy Holidays and a musical and Happy New Year to all!

Michael (Toronto)

This page has the dimensions:

http://www.bonnersmusic.co.uk/buy/Yamaha/LG800_Pro_Keyboard_Stand

The height adjustment is from 625mm to 685mm. The setup I have with my QuikLock stand allows me to place the keyboard just a bit lower so the bottom of the keyboard is at 610mm which is where I prefer it. Ergonomically speaking, for me this seems to work best… depends on chair height, getting your legs under the keyboard to the pedals, the slant of your forearms and hand to the keys… all personal preferences. For me that extra centimetre and a half might be a deal breaker, but I just might check out this stand in the future! It looks really solid. The QuickLock stand is also extremely solid.

On this site, notice which stand they bundle with the CP1 (even though the other is also available)!

http://kraftmusic.com/catalog/digitalpianos/stagepianos/7628

Cheers,
Michael

Welcome to the CP1 club! As a CP1 owner I have nothing but extreme praise for this remarkable instument and I know in the coming days you will really appreciate it even more!

Let us know about your experiences with the sounds, touch, and parameter adjustments.

For a stand I use a Quick Lock WS-550 stand with a 5/8″ plywood bolted on top to create a ‘table’.

http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/?p=productsMore&iProduct=27&sName=WS-550

Best Wishes to all for the coming holiday season!

Michael

here’s a link to it:

http://www.andysmusiconline.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Yamaha-LG800&Click=5969

Bruce

Currently it’s on a very very sturdy studio desk that we have but it’s just a little too high and the pedals are slightly more difficult to get into line using this method.

Thanks.

Best wishes,

Mark

Didn’t want to swear as that’s not good so those were the only other words I could think of!! :-)

The CP1 arrived today. I was watching the window like a hawk and was at the door before the delivery man even had time to get to it.

All I can say is that I am totally in love. I was in love when I tested out the CP1 but I’ve fallen in love all over again. It even sounds better than I remember it sounding when I first tried it out.

This is quite simply the most beautiful sounding, most fantastic action I have ever played and the composer in me is just flowing like nothing ever before.

I can guarantee I now will be able to achieve my dream of getting my music out there and hopefully into films one day.

This piano is simply fantastic. Many thanks to Yamaha for such an absolutely flawless product.

Best wishes,

Mark

Simon, can we go back to your recent comparison of Roland V vs CP1- within the context of someone solely looking for the best acoustic piano sound (for pop/jazz solo work). You sounded like you are most impressed with the CP1 for its electric piano sounds, but that for strictly acoustic piano- you felt the V-Piano is better?

I own a V-Piano. i bought it right before the CP1 came out. I am generally very impressed with it, it is a blast to play and that is a good thing because it makes me play a lot more than i used to, which might actually make me a slightly better pianist. but what i’m really trying to do, is record solo work that sounds authentially acoustic but is off a digital piano (because its a helluva lot easier than micing an acoustic! right?!!). Christian’s solo piano recordings sound more like the sound i’m looking for, but that just might be they typical “everything sounds great the first time you hear it/ play it” (the sample, not Christian!) and then reality sets in and you continue to search for the Holy Grail in F major….

The Silver Piano(s) on the V sound pretty yamah-ish. The Vintage 1 is supposed to be a Steinway, which is a stretch, but it is a very serviceable piano sound. The Vintage 2 is supposed to be a Bos which is a real laugher. maybe its a boz being played under water. its a pretty bizarre rendering.

The biggest problem is that i can’t find one place in Atlanta USA that has a CP1 to test drive. How are you supposed to make a decision on a $5000 keyboard is you have to fly to London to play it?

So I am interested in any fresh side-by-side comparisons folks have of the V vs the CP1- just for the acoustic piano sounds…

thanks!

Never arrived. Looks like it will be tomorrow now. I can see it got to the hub near us but no further than that. I’m sure the shop will like to know that the assured next day delivery never happened.

Ah well, will get it tomorrow I guess.

Mark

Just wanted to pop by and say I’m eagerly awaiting for my CP1 to be delivered today.

I’m a composer have been playing piano for 32 years now (since I was 4) and have always wanted to have a really really good input keyboard / piano.

After playing a Yamaha Clavinova (can’t unfortunately remember the model now) around 17 years ago I have always loved Yamaha.

A few months back I went looking for a piano and tried just about everything I could get my hands on.

Nothing and I mean literally nothing even came close to the CP1 and now luckily I am able to own one.

Just waiting for it to arrive from Scotland now though.

Will post more once I’ve received, un-boxed and played with it for a while.

Regards,

Mark

http://www.audiokeys.net/forum/showthread.php/23745-CP5-Yamaha-Selection-de-quelques-vid%C3%A9os-pertinentes

TEST CP1 & CP5 – DPBSD Project
http://www.audiokeys.net/forum/showthread.php/25371-CP5-YAMAHA-Test-technique-DPBSD-Project-1

I am going to buy the Cp1 this weekend. I can buy some cheaper rhythm and synth boxes on bay and see how it goes. And… Ultimately, buy another synth to midi if the band is a success.

Good luck with the NX, you will not be disappointed, except for the key wear…

Yes – I agree with you: when you put it all together, the NX appears to have star potential! While tempted to dabble with the CP1, I opted not simply because the improvement wasn’t overwhelming beyond the 700GX – it would have been more along the lines of my Kawai MP8 (First generation) which to this day has the best all around wooden action available – why Kawai chose to degrade it with whatever they put into the MP8-II is beyond me… but anyway, that’s a whole different kettle of fish.

Thanks for sharing your insights! We sincerely appreciate it!

All the best,
Adrian

Yes – that’s exactly what I’m saying. I’m a marketing guy in the motor industry but have been playing pianos for 40 years and so whilst far from a musical expert, I could feel a distinct difference between the two. Hard to explain, but the CP1 was just so solid and so responsive.

I could be wrong, but I’m willing to pay £1,500 more of my hard earned to lose all the other features on the CP5 just get the six or seven quality sounds and the extra quality effects and this keyboard. My world runs into a Roland Jazz Chorus and I have several top quality stomp box effects units – to get that ‘Suoertramp’ sound. Switching the units on inside the CP1 is a similar feeling. The quality shines through.

The box on the top issue remains as Yamaha have a box (£1,000) which has most of the Motif sounds and rhythms. Whilst is starts the rhythms when you start playing they have to be stopped by hitting a key, so far from ideal.

Incidentally the CP1 is £3,300 here in the UK, whilst the Roland V is still£4,500. Personally, I don’t get it. They similar in terms of piano sounds, V slightly better over the CP1 in terms of keyboard action and sound…. BUT there’s nothing else, no great electric piano sounds, and those keys will wear within weeks. I really don’t get it.

Value for money the NX is a star, the improved sound of the CP1 will be lost within a band and probably to a degree lost through staxge amps

Wishing to start a lounge band I purchased a 700GX five months ago. The keys start wearing on these instruments wining days of playing and become progressively worse. I’ve owned ivory key pianos in the past, have a yamaha 200pf, challen acoustic and mint Wurlitzer so I know what usual wear is. The instrument is inherently faulty. Roland changed the keyboard for me without question last month, but the new keyboard is the same. My purchase price is being refunded and I urgent need to buy a new stage piano.

The challenge is that the RD was outstanding in every other respect! So what to do? I’ve been diligently researching on the web for weeks and it’s clear that the problem was not fixed in early 2009 as many suggest. Furthermore the PHAIII is an improvement of the action of the keys, not the surface. So an NX is not the solution – very sadly as it makes something otherwise excellent simply outstanding.
I went to London during the week and played an all new Motif and then a CP5 for an hour. I was disappointed. Not a patch on the Roland. I then played the CP1 and was close to tears. Having listen to a particular love song for thirty years and eventually found that exact rhodes with chorus sound was truly amazing.
So, being a pianist rather than a stage artist at heart, it has to be the CP1.
I’ve played the V piano and the Yamaha is significantly better, well for me anyway.

So, all readers be aware. If you want the quality sound and features of the best stage piano on the market, be prepared to put up with awfully rough keys. They are dreadful.

So to my question, forgive my ignorance here people, but can I buy a box that sits on the CP1 which has rhythms plus pads/voices/strings and the like which can mix into the keyboard and start with a foot pedal? What I lose in terms of usability and convenience with the RD will be more than made up for if I can do this. Help please.

Simon

PS. That song? Oh yes, just the way you are….

Wishing to start a lounge band I purchased a 700GX five months ago. The keys start wearing on these instruments wining days of playing and become progressively worse. I’ve owned ivory key pianos in the past, have a yamaha 200pf, challen acoustic and mint Wurlitzer so I know what usual wear is. The instrument is inherently faulty. Roland changed the keyboard for me without question last month, but the new keyboard is the same. My purchase price is being refunded and I urgent need to buy a new stage piano.

The challenge is that the RD was outstanding in every other respect! So what to do? I’ve been diligently researching on the web for weeks and it’s clear that the problem was not fixed in early 2009 as many suggest. Furthermore the PHAIII is an improvement of the action of the keys, not the surface. So an NX is not the solution – very sadly as it makes something otherwise excellent simply outstanding.
I went to London during the week and played an all new Motif and then a CP5 for an hour. I was disappointed. Not a patch on the Roland. I then played the CP1 and was close to tears. Having listen to a particular love song for thirty years and eventually found that exact rhodes with chorus sound was truly amazing.
So, being a pianist rather than a stage artist at heart, it has to be the CP1.
I’ve played the V piano and the Yamaha is significantly better, well for me anyway.

So, all readers be aware. If you want the quality sound and features of the best stage piano on the market, be prepared to put up with awfully rough keys. They are dreadful.

So to my question, forgive my ignorance here people, but can I buy a box that sits on the CP1 which has rhythms plus pads/voices/strings and the like which can mix into the keyboard and start with a foot pedal? What I lose in terms of usability and convenience with the RD will be more than made up for if I can do this. Help please.

Simon

PS. That song? Oh yes, just the way you are….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqyHLwZIWJM&feature=related

BTW, I will be moving to a new home in January and taking my studio to a bright new location…. guess I’ll have to call the piano movers to move my Steinway, Bosendorfer, Fazioli, Yamaha’s and all the upright pianos I have! (just kidding… they’re all in ‘the box’)!

My background in playing is not terribly deep… I can play a variety of classical pieces of the calibre of Fantasie Impromptu, a Beethoven Sonata, Bach Prelude and Fugue, countless jazz standards and pop and blues pieces etc. but I still feel in want of great technique and repertoire! I’m really wanting to do more composing and producing and want to get my studio and keyboards assembled to a point of contentment with the actions, sound library, acoustics etc. I feel I’m very close now… but the grand piano action still interests me alot…. I will be checking out the Roland RD700NX when it ships to Toronto.

Cheers, enjoy and dig into the sound everyone!

Just had a look through some articles on the site you suggested, very useful and now in my favourites list.

When my NX arrives I am going to get my piano teacher (concert pianist and piano teacher in The Royal Northern College of Music, which is in the top two music educational establishments in the U.K) and her husband (who is a serious Jazz pianist with a Doctorate, two masters and an undergraduate degree in Jazz and I don’t think he’s even 32 yet) to test them out. He is probably in the top 10 Jazz pianists in the U.K and has played as the accompanist for Miles Davies Saxophonist etc. They are not used to playing digitals, my classical piano teacher even more so. I will let you know their thoughts, as they may be interesting? By the way I am not suggesting they are more distinguished musicians then youself as I don’t know your background, its just that more valuable opinions paint a better picture often.

Firstly, I must say that I am not sure that I am completely contributing to what you said, as its hard to completely grasp the essence of the points people are trying to put across through written text sometimes. There nothing worse than two people discussing slightly different points without realising, often ending in chaos, lol.

I found this quote on the site you gave “Although digitals continue to draw closer to the ideal, there is, as yet, nothing like the total experience of playing a fine acoustic instrument”. I personally do not believe there ever will be a DP that can match the total experience of an acoustic grand. Like you rightly suggested there are so many variables. I am not sure if “variables” is the right word but I am sure you know what I mean.

I guess for many classical pianists the obsession with the action stems from the fact that we are looking for something as close to an acoustic as possible, without being one (to save space or whatever other reason one would have for requiring a digital in the 1st place). The concert grand is the Bentley or Rolls Royce of pianos so I guess it is only natural to desire a DP action as close to that of an concert acoustic grand.

It also depends how much you are going to play a DP. I will have no choice but to make the NX my main practice instrument for the next 8 months (space issues with getting my piano into my temporary apartment).

Perhaps we are a little bit seduced by the marketing of these digital actions to a point, but not completely I think.

What gets me in regard to the CP1 is that they have decided not to include one of the concert grand variables, namely ‘graded action’. For me this says that there focus is not about making this action as totally acoustic grand like as possible, without it being as costly as the Avant Grand of course, which is in my opinion worth every penny. You have actually played the CP1 as a pose to me having bashed it in the store for 20 mins or so. Therefore my opinion is probably a lot more subjective than yours.

P.S Michael I am defiantly a lesser technically competent musician than you at the moment I suspect. Thank you for taking time to reply to my post. I look forward to learning from you and Adrian. Sorry for the horrible structure of this post, I was in rushing!

Honestly, it confuses me because I know what it’s like to play a well regulated nine foot Steinway D. I played the Steinway at Roy Thomson Hall, Toronto backstage (home of Toronto Symphony Orch and piano used by world renowned pianists such as Alfred Brendel…et al). I must say that it is an amazing experience when the keyboard is so responsive to your every wish. But you must have the technique to back it up!

I think the Roland V-Piano action is quite excellent in that regard, but so is the CP-1 and many other actions I’ve tried. On that note, different acoustic grand actions vary as well. I’d be curious to see a post by a highly accomplished concert or jazz pianist of the calibre of Horowitz or Chick Corea comment on digital piano actions!
BTW, I just learned that the Yamaha Avant Grand has a real acoustic grand action that needs regulation just like an acoustic grand. See this excellent site (also other articles):

http://www.pianobuyer.com/fall10/154.html

Thanks again Gareth and others… I look forward to Roland RD700NX discussions and my own tests…

Many thanks,
Adrian

p.s I tend to agree with your assessment of the Roland vs. Yamaha CP action; please come back to us after your NX arrives? In fact, I’d love for you to consider writing a guest post on the blog after you’ve had some time with it?

Im classical pianist concerned almost entirely with piano action rather than the sound of the DPs. I am only interested in sound in relation to how the sound ‘connects’ to the action. For this reason my rambling about sound may be somewhat subjective and inaccurate.

Sorry for my constant description of myself when I post. Contextualization in relation to the person offering critique is an extremely important factor to consider when reading anything.

Topics: 1.CP1 and CP5 action 2.CP1 vs PHAIII (RD700nx/V piano) action 3.PHAIII (RD700nx/V piano) action 4.V Piano key wear

Topic 1: CP1 and CP5 action

As almost all my experience before 3 years ago was of acoustic piano action, rather than digital piano action, this critique is concerned with how the actions match up – as much as a DP can – to acoustic actions.

On Saturday I played both the CP5 and CP1 for the first time. I was already aware that neither had a graded action before I tried them out, so obviously my judgement may have been even subconsciously narrowed by this knowledge.

There was little difference to be felt in regards to action between the CP1 and CP5. To be quite honest I felt no difference at all between the two, which I did not expect to anyway because as far as I am aware they are in fact the same actions!!

My suspicions have been confirmed. The lack of graded action on the CP1 and CP5 was an attempt to try to please those wanting an authentic grand piano action experience as well those wanting to play sounds that would traditionally have no graded action (including those without an acoustic piano background). In attempting to do this I feel that it is definitely those who want an experience as close to an acoustic as possible that have missed out.

In my opinion if you are wanting something to play non-piano sounds on, or if you are not used to graded action then the CP1 and CP5 are for you. This is all highly subjective so please read with extreme caution.

TOPIC 2: CP1 vs PHAIII (RD700nx/V piano) action

I have not yet played the RD700nx, but I have played the V Piano with the same action. Even so, I do negate the fact that the action may feel slightly different in the NX, but maybe not. im sure others on here are more qualified than myself to make this judgement.

The CP1 is a much more ‘instant’ action than the Roland PHAIII and PHAII action for that matter. By this I mean that there is less of a feeling of latency when playing Chopin Fantasie Impromptu on the CP1 than the Roland PHAIII action. Perhaps this is something to do with the differing depths of the actions. However, I am not sure this is a good thing. The fast passages may be more instant and feel easier to play on the CP1 but perhaps it makes it artificially easy, I think maybe so??, lol.

I do now understand – I think – why the Roland action seems a little tad late when played fast. It is perhaps realistically harder to play as a real grand is and would be to throw the hammers.

TOPIC 3: PHAIII (RD700nx/V piano) action

A problem I had with the RD700GX PHAII action is the feeling of bottoming out (only in my opinion). When I played it in store for 40 mins (various classical and some jazz improv) I felt as though it either more shock absorbent ‘cushioning thingy’ under the keys, it felt like hitting a wall when I got to the bottom of the depressed note.

Now in the PHAIII action, as a pose to the PHAII, I do not feel this as much at all – bottoming out. Can anyone tell me why this might be because as far as i am aware the mechanics of the two actions are the same. Perhaps I just played a hammered GX in the store? P.S I don’t think it a setting thing (e.g Hard +6).

I like the Ivory feel very much. It reminds me slightly of an old Bluthner grand my piano teacher had. Incidentally this very well kept Bluthner had a hard feeling at the bottom of the depressed note similar to my experience of the GX. the Yamaha grand I practiced on for the past 3 years is more forgiving with this issue. As acoustics vary so do electrics!

By the way I have ordered the NX. Kawai MP10 is just to big to consider and lug around to places along with Roland KC-350 amp (Even though it may be great when released). Yamaha CP1 and CP5 are no go’s for me as a classical musician. RD700-NX is likely to be ‘right down my street’. I Will also enjoy buying a Korg Triton rack and controlling it from the NX.

4. V Piano key wear

The V-Piano I played had significant key wear around the middle C range. The store guy told me “it was supposed to do this”. I believe this key wear problem has been sorted?

The grain had become very rough/wide if you know what I mean.

If I like the look of worn jeans (say 30 years old) but cannot find a pair of 30 year old jeans in the store perhaps I would but some brand new worn looking jeans. If i buy a pair of normal jeans (not worn looking). I do not expect them to show 120 years of wear after 3 years otherwise I would have bought them that way in the 1st place.

Why should the keys wear 100 years in 2 years? They should not, otherwise why not just make them like that?!

Anyway as far as I have heard this problem has been rectified?

END: Go easy on me I have allot to learn. P.S please remember we all bring or own presuppositions to these subjects even if we try not to. Thanks Gareth