So how the pressure varies across several octaves is mostly a matter of taste, as you say. By the way, you could argue the same about volume: why not design pianos so that the SPL of all notes be constant all over the keyboard at the same velocity? It would be an arbitrary choice, but not necessarily the most pleasing musically (since the ear is more sensitive to some frequencies): therefore the SPL is not constant, but is designed to vary in a way that helps expressivity. Why not do this for key weight too? Since the ear can’t hear fast notes as accurately in the lower registers, why not make them slightly heavier to give them slightly more control? (since low notes have higher sustain and tend to be pedaled, control can also be more important)

Note that I’m not really arguing that graded keyboards are a must (I haven’t even tried the CP1), just saying that you shouldn’t think that graded keyboards are a bad thing based on a misinterpretation of Stanwood’s work.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5125309.html

Quote from webpage:

“To a pianist, it is important that the pressure required to depress the piano keys feel uniform across the keyboard. If EVERY KEY FEELS ALIKE (my emphasis), the pianist can exert greater control over the volume of the musical tones produced, making the piano easier to play as well as allowing the pianist to play more expressively. For instance, if each key requires the same pressure to produce a given volume, the pianist can easily play a series of notes at the same volume by applying the same pressure to each key. If, on the other hand, each key requires a different pressure to produce a given volume, the pianist has the difficult task of learning how much pressure to apply to each key at a particular piano in order to play a series of notes at the same volume. Therefore it is considered desirable to build a piano action so that there is uniform “feel” in EACH key. “

Without turning on the power to the CP-1, I find that the key resistance is consistent key to key (non-graded) and therefore very predictable and “constant”. I think that the weight of the keys should be constant and perfectly predictable key to key even though the volume output may vary (i.e. the bass notes are louder). Where the volume has more potential loudness, well I’ll deal with that using the same “constant” key weight! I suppose it’s a personal preference thing, much like a carpenter who uses smaller and larger hammers (with different weights) to pound in different sized nails! Or the carpenter who just sticks to one medium sized hammer.

I find just thinking about this issue (graded vs non-graded actions) a bit complex, but my hunch is that the keyboard action should be a “constant” weight ideally….don’t you think? It’s one of the control parameters you DON’T want changing, even if only gradually up the keyboard. After all wouldn’t you want the keys to consistently be interfaced with your finger strength (which has a “constant” set range of velocity/strength capability)? This makes more sense to me, and I look forward to any interesting comments especially by piano technicians and physics-minded people!

Happy music making everyone!

Michael (Toronto)

The only convincing reason to avoid graded actions would be that it makes keyboard splits and transpositions more transparent since the action doesn’t depend on the position (but on the flip side you could argue that a graded keyboard gives you freedom to vary the action slightly by transposing).

I personally think the worries over the non-graded action on the CP5 are a little overly paranoid. And from the other direction I think the real wooden keys are nice but more for marketing. I think it really comes down to personal preference. For her, the Roland action was a bit smoother.

From a non-musician opinion on the user interface, I thought that the Roland was much simpler and more intuitive. Although I’m sure if one took the time to read through the CP5 manual, it could easily be figured out.

Thanks for the good information on your site!

“He discovered that playing a piano was like riding a bicycle: a piano that offered a consistent touch allows the player to move smoothly and effortlessly through the music, just as a paved road offers the cyclist an easy glide. In contrast, a keyboard that feels inconsistent from note to note acts as a barrier between the music and the musician, the way a potholed road forces a rider to watch for hazards rather than just relaxing and enjoying the journey.”

http://www.mvtimes.com/marthas-vineyard/news/2009/11/12/david-stanwood.php

Michael

http://www.callahanpiano.com/article_stanwood.htm

a quote from the article:

“New Touch Weight Metrology” is a method of units and measures that details how each piano action part affects the feel of the action. The system analyzes the working parts of an action to produce the cleanest, most precise touch. The goal was to make each key MORE PREDICTABLE AND THE INSTRUMENT AS EVEN AND UNIFORM AS POSSIBLE. In devising the system, David created a whole new field: “Piano Touchweight Technology.”

Michael (Toronto)

Michael (Toronto) here…. (I think we’re up to 3 Michael’s now!) I’m the one with the ADAM speakers…

I haven’t written in for a while… been busy but have also spent a LOT of time playing my CP-1… so here are some updated comments!

First, I must say that the action really grows on you in a great way… just feels slick, responsive, and for me a nice weight. A personal insight… I play a lot on acoustic pianos through the week (mostly uprights) and on a grand each Friday and Saturday at my restaurant gig which has the effect of keeping my technique up. At times I feel that my hands are ‘more alive’ than at others! When I play for 2 hour stretches at a time at the restaurant, I find my hands are stronger the next day. So when I sit at the CP-1 I find I can glide around better and ‘interface’ with the keyboard better. In other words, I feel that when your technique is ‘up’ you can take advantage of the excellent CP-1 response better. I don’t really think that the CP-1 action is lacking in anything, especially when my hand technique is ‘strong’ and ‘alert’. Some of you may interpret this as: “the CP-1 can only be played well (especially virtuosic playing) by virtuoso technique since the keyboard is lacking, maybe sluggish, etc…” NONSENSE! The CP-1 is EXTREMELY responsive and capable of amazingly fast performances and fast passages. Also fine gradations of sensitive dynamics.

On another note…. I don’t understand personally about “graded actions”. To be honest, I never really noticed that when I had a Yamaha C7 grand. Maybe I just never tuned into it closely… I’m sure the bass notes were slightly heavier than the high treble notes. Why is everyone so focused on a ‘graded’ action? In my opinion, I think I would prefer a non-graded action with a uniform touch to every single key. This makes more sense to me. I spoke to my piano technician about it and he tells me that the graded action is due to heavier hammers in the bass area are needed to move the heavier weighted bass strings gradually getting smaller up to the treble strings. Piano technicians compensate for the heavier keys by adjusting the lead weights in the keys. Here’s an interesting video by David Stanwood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cT5GOcprEY

Personally I want my action to feel uniform in weight top to bottom. It’s like going up and down a staircase with each stair the same distance requiring the same force from my legs, therefore being “transparent” as David Stanwood says. The CP-1 feels very uniform to me top to bottom. Also it sounds a note for you even if you play with an extremely light touch (slow velocity) unlike a real grand that might not sound the note if your too light (frustrating!).

On yet another note… I love the CP-1 for more than the remarkable acoustic pianos. The digital pianos are outstanding. The DX-7 pianos sound like having a real DX-7 (I used to own one!). But by far, the possible combinations (in pairs) are a plethora of professional piano-type sonorities. I’m not sure you’ll get all the subtleties with the CP-5. I think there is also more parameter control on the CP-1 pianos. Also, the three pedal system is excellent and very sensitive.

Also, the CONVENIENCE factor of having an amazing piano in a three second startup is about as close to sitting down at an acoustic and just playing it as it comes. The controls are right in front of you (I like to tweak hammer hardness mid performance, or even change the layered sound mid performance).

As for using the money to buy a baby grand instead???? Are you kidding me? A six thousand dollar used acoustic junkpile that goes out of tune and rattles like a bucket of bolts? Needs to be tuned often… only has one sound? (not bad if you own a great acoustic, i.e. Steinway, Bechstein, etc… try 50K)

The CP-1 simply has it all and more.

The CP-1 overdelivers on the price.

Each day I am even more convinced I chose right!

It’s the centerpiece of my digital world.

Michael (Toronto)

-Preben

Sincerely appreciate your compliments and your post has me quite motivated now to make a direct comparison as well! Will update everyone SOON!

-Adrian

I just came home from trying out a yamaha Cp5 at a Sam Ash music store. I must say, from a person who has been playing classical piano for 20+ years and recieved a masters in piano, I was very impressed with the Cp5. The wooden Keys REALLY made a difference in the action. I’d say action is similar to a medium(i mean medium as not heavy weighted like a steinway or baldwin piano) weighted acoustic piano. I’m a bit of a newbie when it comes to digital pianos, I haven’t tried out the Cp1 yet, but i have tried the roland 700 GX and I didn’t like the action as much as the cp5. Since i’m looking for a more “heavy weighted feel” I’m very curious about the action and feel of the Cp5 vs. the Kawai mp8 because if the kawai mp8 is heavier then i must get one (if i can find one)! During my undergraduate and graduate studies I’ve been playing Steinway and Baldwin pianos so I’m used to and prefer “heavy” action and feel. Adrian help! :( If you say the Kawai mp8 is heavier action and more like a steinway than the cp5 then need one!

Thanks for your awsome website and posts! I found this site just in time!

-Preben Hoegh

Thanks

Darren

Thanks again for taking the time to express your views!

-Adrian

1. a cp-300

2. a killer computer

3. Ivory

4. with change to spare.

Do what I do….record on the cp-300 using the cp’s internal piano sound and then use your midi track to trigger a Bosendorfer, or Steinway, or whatever you have on your computer. This is what 90% of mid-size studios do.

To answer your question as to why yamaha did not go with graded….I can tell you that it’s because the cp-1 is more than just an acoustic piano. There are a few songs in our set that require wurlitzer/rhodes, and to be honest, the cp-300’s graded action is not ideal to playing electric pianos. I think yamaha assumed that the targeted buyer would want the best of both actions. I am disappointed as 90% of my sound is piano, so I won ‘t be upgrading.

Also, many digital piano actions have 3 sections of grading; heavy, medium, and light. This means there is a distinct step transitioning between these sections, instead of a constant grading across 88 keys. Do any digital piano keybeds use constant grading, with each key having slightly greater or less weight than it’s neighbor? Do any keybeds use more than 3 sections of weight?

I’ve yet to play the CP1, V-Piano, or MP8. But the V-Piano’s lack of Rhodes and Wurlitzer emulations bothers me, and the MP8 seems like investing dated technology. Adding additional sound modules and computers can be versatile but I don’t want to have to depend on that to be satisfied with a new keyboard. I did enjoy playing a Nord Stage EX 88 recently, and the Nord Piano is another interesting option.

I grew up on a nice August Forstner upright, and currently own CP70B’s, a Baldwin Electropiano, Wurlitzer 200’s, Hammond CV & A100, a Clavinet D6, and a Yamaha CS50, in addition to an old, busted K2500X and some other digital and analog synths. A large reason why I own these different instruments is for authenticity of sound quality and the way the performance is affected by the mechanics of the instruments respective actions. I’ve been considering the CP1 and CP5, along with the Nord Stage and other instruments, to get some lighter gear to transport to gigs.

I created a spreadsheet to compare the current offerings of digital pianos, as well as organ style keyboards, which is visible at the link below. Please feel free to contribute any relevant factual information to the spreadsheet.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgBRFhaER91CdDlOX2ExVVF3OEhDemtwTDZTUlUyUnc&hl=en

Thanks for the info and commentary.
willi

Thanks for taking the time to comment – especially on this point of the CP1 action. I think many of us share your concerns with regards to the non-graded action. That’s one thing that I can’t get my head around; why did Yami opt that out? Interestingly, I played the P250 (CP300 predecessor) for many years and have the same opinion as you – combined with those internal 30W vibrations, it was definitely the best feeling Yamaha I’d experienced.

Just my opine, but I’ve always put the action/feel way ahead in terms of sound (from the board) because there are numerous ways to meet or exceed the sound quality with off board samples and/or even modeling engines. I think we’re all interested what the forthcoming CP5 will do in terms of comparison to some of the Roland models such as the GX700 but speaking for myself, take away the graded action (which the Roland has) and it very well may not pass muster.

Thanks again for sharing!

Of course, it always come down to personal preference, but in my opinion, the CP5 would be a stronger investment than the CP300. For me, it would come down to the high likelihood of a more appealing action – simply based on the wooden keys. The CP5 will also provide a broader sound palette than the CP300, and still borrows enough of the piano modeling from the CP1 to probably meet or exceed the CP300. This is the same consideration I’m making with regards to potentially moving over to the CP5 from the RD700GX.

Let us know what you end up with?

Would the CP5 be a good purchase for those of us that can’t afford the CP1? Is the CP5 better than the CP300?

Nice to hear about your interest in the CP-1! I’m constantly mesmerized by the excellence of sound and touch. I’ve had mine since March 3rd (about 3 weeks now). I’m finding that I like the touch more and more each time I play it, a difficult thing to explain.

Regarding your speaker questions I can tell you that you’ll be amazed at how much clear, full, smooth sound the Adam A5’s will put out even WITHOUT a subwoofer! I have my A5’s on stands so that the tweeters are at ear level just a few inches behind the piano. The width apart is about the length of the keyboard so that the speakers are within the length of the keyboard. As I posted previously I also have 4 Adam P-22A’s and an ADAM sub 10 MK2 subwoofer.

I run the balanced outs of the CP-1 straight into a stereo input on the Mackie Big Knob which has 3 speaker stereo balanced pairs (A,B,and C) and an extra “Studio Out” which I use for the A5’s (also balanced). I keep emphasizing ‘balanced’ since it will knock out any noise to the signal and this is important for the ‘natural effect’. Nothing more irritating than spending thousands of dollars on speakers then turning them on and putting up with a constant soft noise floor! The Mackie also has a pair of excellent, quiet headphone outs. I use AKG K240DF headphones and they are AMAZING!

This is a very exciting time for me with this new Yamaha CP-1 since the last time I bought an 88-key weighted digital piano was 14 years ago! That was the Yamaha P-300. So I look at this purchase as a potential very long-term investment. I wasn’t prepared for the sonic advances I’m hearing with the CP-1. Actually, until I experienced Ivory pianos (software) I really didn’t think the digital world would EVER inspire me as much as my acoustic piano did (I used to own a Yamaha C7). But the CP-1 soars right up there with not only the awesome luxurious CFIII and S6 acoustics but also the astounding electric pianos! I recently recorded a duo track of piano and vocal jazz on “My Funny Valentine” with Ivory’s “Italian Grand”. I then substituted the CP-1 piano and it sat deliciously in the mix as well as Ivory if not better. I don’t hear any “layer transitions” or sample “shifts” up the keyboard.

As for layering Pianoteq, I would experiment with that. I love to add increased sympathetic resonance (see previous post). I also insert a 5-band sweepable EQ in the signal path to Pianoteq and drop out some of the hi-mid frequencies for a smoother modeled piano sound. Actually the only thing you hear from Pianoteq is a very mild resonance far in the background added to the CP-1 sound… I’d say Pianoteq 5%, CP-1 95%.
The CP-1 is absolutely heaven! Hope you enjoy yours as much as I do Mark!

P.S. I must concur with you about music stores… sometimes the sales guys can be uninformed but I’ve kept looking around until I was able to strike up a relationship with a particular pro audio specialist who is also a studio owner and engineer! His advice is always well informed and usually put to the test rigorously!

I will let you know how things go, and once again – Thanks

Appreciate you stopping by and commenting. Will try my best to address your questions (re connecting 2:1 with CP-1). MOST OF THE TIME, a configuration like what you’re describing will be achieved by going straight out of the CP-1 into the *sub-woofer* (that’s right two stereo ins to the sub even tho the sub is mono) and then using the stereo outs of the sub-woofer to connect to the A5s. I’m not sure if the A7 supports this, but most sub-woofers do so that would be a clean and tidy setup.

For a 2:1 setup you really shouldn’t require a mixer, but yes, in the case of what Michael has going, that’s indeed a requirement.

Instead of a Mackie Big Knob, I might suggest something like the KRK ERGO which not only provides the “big knob” type functionality but also equalization (and pretty darn good at that) to compensate for room acoustics – this will definitely help the quality of your sound in a smaller space. Additionally, it has precisely the type of speaker management you’re requiring: separate sub-woofer and right/left stereo outputs. The CP1 would direct out into the ERGO and the ERGO becomes your “mini-mixer”.

I happen to use the ERGO myself (not for the same reasons) but I have separate post/review on the site that explains that gadget a bit more. I believe it’s approximately the same price as the Big Knob (but simply provides more of what I believe you’ll require)…

Hope this helps, and let us know what you settle on?

I have a question for Michael (Toronto), and you :

I am about to purchase for my loft a CP-1 (for my children to learn on and for me to noodle on) and had pretty much determined to get ADAM A5’s for sound, going straight from Line Out to the active speakers. (I suppose I will find the Stereo-link feature useful for an evenly balanced volume control.) I am thinking to reinforce the bass with an A7 subwoofer, but I am not clear as to how I get the signal to the subwoofer.

From your description of your extensive speaker set up, I suppose you must be using a mixer or some kind of simpler (or more complex) signal distribution device(s) which presumably may handle the signal to the sub-woofer.

In my case, other than the sub-woofer, I don’t really intend to add more speakers to the 2 A5’s.

Will I need a small mixer or 2.1 preamp or some other kind of device between the piano and the speakers and if so what might you recommend ? Or is the Mackie Big Knob the “black box” that does all that ? (Pardon my ignorance.)

In conjunction to the question above I should note that I was already considering getting a decent pre-amp for a good set of headphones for silent playing. Maybe I need a Mackie Big Knob combined with another black box, or two ?

If you are wondering why I don’t just go over to the music store where I will buy the CP-1 and ask for their solution, I should explain that for some reason I am so dysfunctional in music stores that whenever I consult on some slightly out of the ordinary question with the gear heads at the shop I am just as likely to get way off on a new tangent and come home with a new guitar or mini-synth.

Anyway, I appreciate any advice and thanks again Adrian for the great site.

P.S. I would like to come back to you later for advice on using Pianoteq software. In my household I have a both an extra Macbook Pro and an IMac, one of which I suppose would be useful to plant next to the CP-1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7A4Csfey6g&translated=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7A4Csfey6g&translated=1

Today I was in the music store playing the V-Piano and tried the new upgraded sounds (‘Impactance, Upright…) Must say there is a definite improvement in physical modelling! I love the very authentic ivory feeling keys and I’ll say it again, the action is simply spectacular. I’d even say that as a grand piano action I’d prefer it over the CP-1 action. Wish I could “marry” the two!

Actually, just another thought… if Roland continues to improve the V-Piano sound then the V-Piano is definitely a product that can grow with you. Once again, please excuse my irresponsible mental lapse!

At this early point I think that the Roland V piano action has it over the CP-1 action in terms of “acoustic piano action”. Then I thought that once V-piano owners try a CP-1 and are stunned by the sound and playability, they might want to sell off their V-pianos en masse. Then I might pick up a used V-Piano (maybe for a thousand?) for an extra studio action/ extra studio piano board for when my piano playing buddies come over for jamming duets! For myself, I might use the V-piano action solely for playing classical driving the CP-1. What do you think about this crazy thought? Please let me say that I think the V-Piano is a marvel of technology and one day it may be the new standard…

Cheers,
Michael

- I started feeling like the action on the CP-1 was not so conducive to playing demanding classical piano passages. Playing everything else was fine. I then got a bit down over this as my fingers struggled to play certain passages I could play very well on my acoustic C7 (i.e. RH opening to Chopin Fantasie Impromptu).

-the sound though is nothing short of HALLELUJAH! am I playing a digital or an acoustic? It’s incredibly fantastic and rich and inspiring, smooth, full, commanding, sweet, resonant, warm, et al….

-I started thinking that maybe I needed a digital with a better “piano action”. The CP-1 has a kind of hybrid piano/electric piano action I think… started considering the Roland V-piano instead…

-went back to music store to try the Roland V-piano again today and played for over an hour on it. I found the action slightly heavy but better than any other digital piano. But the sound was annoying, especially in the upper midrange. Thought about buying the V piano just for it’s action! (to play with Ivory). Abandoned that idea quickly!

-felt like I could never part with the CP-1 sound!!! But brought home a motif xs8 to try as a combined 88 key weighted action instead, sound module, sampler. Now I have 3 new keyboards sitting in my studio: CP-1, Motif xs7, and Motif xs8! Boy did I have fun with MIDI cords!

-at a certain point in my auditions, the CP-1 action became rather friendly to my fingers in almost all challenges. I tweaked the keyboard response settings and really got to feel the possibilities. The action is actually quite impressive once you spend some time relating to it. It’s a kind of a “warm” feeling action (not sluggish). I’m happy again :)

-got loving the layer combinations and electric pianos as well (so subtle and clear).

-now I’m almost 100 percent resolved with keeping the CP-1. (I’ll return the Motif xs8)

-as a second keyboard, I’ll go with the Motif xs7 (it has slightly smaller key width) but a fast action suitable for organ playing or other fast instruments. I’ll use the real time controls for jamming live.

-believe me, this was not one of my better days. Well, I guess you could say it was a “crisis in paradise”.

Here’s a quote I found on a blog by someone else at (he’s talking about the Roland V-Piano upgrade then about the CP-1):

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1350656/V-Piano%20Update…quick%20review.html

“Well, I’ve installed the update, and am not really impressed. I really needed them to fix the existing mid range problems with the existing presets / patches / models – whatever you want to call them. Fix the problems first, then add patches.

For me the Vertical, V1 Impactance and Metallic SB patches offer no advantages.

I like the Triple Large patch the best, and the mid range is improved, but still has a ways to go. To my ears, there are also a few notes hear and there that will need tweaking, apart from the mid range, that did not need tweaking on the other, i.e. original patches.

I don’t get why they call this V-Piano Evolution. Come on, they’ve added four patches, to the existing 24, and haven’t done anything to improve the existing 24! Seriously?

So, I’m still anxiously wanting to try out the Yamaha CP1 and experience words like “unreal detail, beautiful bass, gorgeous midrange, crystal clear top end with no brittleness at all”. Words used elsewhere to describe the CFIIIS piano. I just don’t feel such inspiration with V-Piano. This may be in fact because it is modeled only, and such words need samples + modeling to become a reality.”

I hope the CP-1 will make you a believer soon too! Just make sure you listen with studio headphones or excellent studio monitors. I think I’ll be keeping mine for life!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7A4Csfey6g&translated=1

http://www.yamaha.co.jp/design/synapses/product/list/?productId=024&lng=en

You asked:
“I have a couple of questions for you if you don’t mind. Each piano (CFIIIS,S6) has either 2 or 3 band choices. What is the difference? Also when you play the acoustic pianos do you leave the reverb and pre-amp on? I’ve been shutting the reverb off. I can’t find anything in the book that really explains what these are.”

I think that the only difference is not the actual sound of the piano but only with the type of equalizer available for each on the pre-amp section. For example, with the 3 band CFIII you have a 3 band preset EQ, whereas with the 2 band CFIII you have a 2 band EQ with one band tunable for frequency. This allows you to “zero in” on whatever frequency you want to adjust. Otherwise, to my ears they both sound exactly the same. Of course the CFIII sounds very different than the S6 piano. A side note is that at the end of the chain there is a master EQ which is a full 5-band PARAMETRIC EQ. Each of the 5 bands has adjustments for volume (dB), centre frequency (hz), and bandwidth (q). Talk about fine tuning EQ adjustability!!! Also note that the master EQ is independent of the program data. Whatever you do with the master EQ stays put regardless of switching piano programs. You could use this nicely in a live situation where the speaker response is less than ideal, or for effect purposes if you want to add/subtract very particular frequencies in the overall sound (it affects the WHOLE setup, I.e. combinations of 2 pianos as well).

As for using reverb, this is an entirely broad (excuse the association!) and specific topic! Do you want to feel as if you’re in a concert hall, medium room, or just have a dry piano? Is there an overall reverb in your DAW mix? Etc., etc…
In a live setting, I’d probably not use much reverb at all depending on the room I’m in.

With the CP-1, I’m falling in love with the digital world all over again! Last night I told a friend that I wasn’t too crazy about going to my gig with the real acoustic piano (it’s a small 5 foot Weber, albeit well maintained), I wished I could have taken my CP-1! But alas, my CP-1 has a comfortable spot nestled at the heart of my studio, kinda reminds me of the song “Baby Grand”.

Cheers,

Michael (Toronto)

All the best,
Adrian

Well let me say this to Michael no. 1. I must say that you’re observations about the action sound pretty accurate. The CP-1 action is most excellent, but possibly not as “authentically grand piano” as for example the Roland V. I find the Roland RD700GX slightly heavy. The Roland V is probably a tiny bit closer to a grand action than the CP-1. And I mean TINY. So what do we have here?….

I, for one, am simply loving this instrument. I’m asking myself if a “perfect” grand piano action is what I really want in a studio keyboard. (Remember, the CP-1, to me, is pretty close to a perfect grand action). Anyway, when I’m playing the Rhodes or DX (incredible!) or CP-80’s this keyboard just feels like it belongs with these sounds. I’d say that for a grand piano action it’s pretty darn near close as well. I’ve been able to play all manner of styles of music with excellent finger/key responses. So maybe I’ve been a bit too complimentary about the NW-stage action. But I gotta say I just love it. I recently took home the Yamaha S90xs and thought that action was ok, but CP-1 is so much better for piano playing. The S90xs has a mushier feel (due to aftertouch?). I thought the S90xs was going to be my new 88 note weighted studio board there for a bit but took it back. I’ve used a Yamaha P-300 (not CP-300) for about 14 years! THAT was a very light action. During that time I also owned a 7ft grand for about ten years (the Yamaha C7). I had to sell off my grand which I do miss, believe me… I’m working towards one day owning a Steinway B anyways…

Also, I tried the S90xs in order to get the Motif sounds as well as having a cool “jamming” instrument with the arpeggiators and styles. But for playing sounds such as organs or guitars I prefer a non-weighted action (preferably 76 notes or 88). So to achieve this in my studio I ended up right now with the CP-1 and a Motif xs7 (76 non-weighted keys). I MIDI the CP-1 driving the xs7 and can jam and layer in real time to my hearts content. This I find very inspirational. The Motif also expands my tone generator library without weighing down my computer processor. So all in all, I have two different keyboards to use and all the motif sounds as well as an incredible piano beast that inspires the hell out of me!

In terms of sound, I’ll say it again that the CP-1 just sonically has the best, clearest, driving, yet expressive piano you will sit down to short of actually sitting in front of a Yamaha CFIII piano or S6. I just did not hear this with either the Roland V, 700GX, Korg, Kurzweill, but I haven’t tried the Kawai. I love playing the Ivory Steinway and Fazioli (Italian Grand) software pianos. The CP-1 is definitely on par with any of these, if not better. It even blows away the motif grand piano (not bad). I love the pedal unit, very solid, doesn’t move a millimeter (I’m Canadian), and is quiet (so far) and pedals positioned nicely.

When I was back at the store re-checking the Roland V, I must say I liked the action very much as a piano action (maybe a tiny bit more than the CP-1). Then at the very end of this audition, I tried rapid single note repetitions with one hand and found that the Roland V fell short for me. This is also not easy to do with the CP-1 or any digital piano I’ve tried so far. Also, spending all that money on a Roland V for it’s piano action but not totally liking the sounds seemed like a waste of money. Plus, I’d have to spend another 900 dollars for their solid stand. Ouch!

I plan to use the CP-1 as my “main” studio keyboard and I believe that for playing other sounds (especially varieties of keyboards) it will be amazing! Yesterday I did some “double keyboard” noodling with the motif xs7. Both hands playing the same rapid broken triad, then one hand moving to a different chord in the same octave. Some cool effects to try. Anyways, now I’m off topic…

One last thing I’ll say is this… I can’t understand why people will spend thousands and thousands of dollars on keyboards, computers, mixers, and processors then skimp when it come to speakers, spending only a few hundred dollars! Do you think that somehow that excellent digitized sample inside your keyboard or computer is just magically going to hop out of your cheap speaker bypassing the mediocre speaker cone and tweeter? Trust me, I’ve tried this! It won’t work! Sink some serious cash into your speaker system and be prepared to enter sonic heaven! Think ADAM or some other very serious speaker system and you’ll be rewarded with a pristine sound experience practically as if acoustic instruments are right there! This will really bring out the CP-1 experience. (BTW, I studied at Trebas Institute of Recording Arts, and I was a live sound engineer for years as well. I used spectrum analyzers for everything until I was able to hear subtle frequency adjustments.) And of course, run everything balanced…. But you already knew that, right?

I’ll be happy to get pics over to you soon…

Michael (in Toronto)

I find the action feel to be in between the Roland V and Kawai MP8ii. While everyone’s opinion will vary, I’m really loving it and I’ve grown accustomed to it rather quickly.

I’m fairly new to keyboards and really was only interested in the acoustic pianos. I play classical music and haven’t experimented yet with the digital keyboards in it.

I haven’t hooked it up to the computer yet and don’t even know about pianoteq. I’m really just happy with the way it is. I have tweaked some of the CFIIIS’s properties like hammer hardness and release length to my tastes. It is so easy to adjust on the fly.

I have a couple of questions for you if you don’t mind. Each piano (CFIIIS,S6) has either 2 or 3 band choices. What is the difference? Also when you play the acoustic pianos do you leave the reverb and pre-amp on? I’ve been shutting the reverb off. I can’t find anything in the book that really explains what these are. I’m very new to the digital world!

I moved to NYC several years ago and never had space for an acoustic piano so I stopped playing. I only recently started to see what was available with keyboards and this CP1 has blown me away. The sound is better than anything I ever played!

James

I’m the first Michael, and wanted to comment here.

I’m actually a bit hesitant to wholeheartedly recommend the CP-1 as the be-all and end-all of pianos. It has some great sounds with not a whole lot of looping, and is more solid through the midrange than Roland’s offerings. The Rhodes and Hammond are on par with the other performance stage piano that everyone loves to hate, the Nord Electro series. The DX7 is pure heaven and a dead ringer for the original.

All that said, I really don’t think this is a great replacement for those looking for a grand piano action simulation. There isn’t any grading on it, and I can tell because when I played one I could sense the difference between that and some Kawais and Steinways I normally play on. The RD700GX that you have with the PHAII action, or a V piano with PHAIII, is more authentic to me than this new NW-stage action.

It’s certainly better than the mega-tank CP300 predecessor in terms of weight, and has some advantages. It won’t make everyone happy, though. I think some of the Nord Electro folks might migrate over because of the better pianos (and cost on the CP5), but I think your RD700GX with the Supernatural expansion or a software piano like Synthogy Ivory will be better strictly from a piano perspective. And we still haven’t seen the RM3 action from Kawai in a portable format, but I’m sure we will soon.

CP-1 plus Pianoteq cross-string resonance = piano heaven (see my last posts). I just gotta tell you all that this is one helluva digital piano experience. This combination is just like having a REAL piano here. I do this WITHOUT ANY reverb at all. Just like having the piano right in the studio. Amazing. The soundboard resonances are the best “reverb” one needs. The harmonics all line up with the harmonic content of my music without any needed reverb effects mushing up my sound. Sometimes though when I want to feel as though I’m in a bigger space I’ll add some reverb. Can’t wait to record this into some cool tracks. Stay tuned CP-1 watchers… better yet, stop watching and go get one today!

Michael (Toronto)
P.S. pics coming soon…

As for the sound quality… Well, for me, the CP-1 just wins hands down. There is just an incredible reproduction of the 9 foot Yamaha and S6 Yamaha (better than the S90xs). I could simply live with the one CFIII program alone! But you get spoiled with the other piano as well (S6). Then to really make matters complete, the electric pianos are just to die for! Then you get to COMBINE 2 at a time for a truly fulfilling piano experience! I reiterate that the piano sounds are incredibly clear for EVERY key, well balanced sonically, and most importantly, these sounds INSPIRE!!! The Roland V pianos sound pleasant throughout most of the range, but they have a ‘flat, synthetic’ quality over much of the range. To be sure, it is a pleasing sound and quite listenable, and also quite inspiring, but not nearly as rich and even and intense as the CP-1. It just sounds better and inspires me more.

A factor for me was that I wanted a piano that I could just turn on and immediately start practicing with without having to launch the computer (I own Ivory and Pianoteq as well). The CP-1 comes through with as much sonic power as any software based piano if not more! It powers up in about 5 seconds flat (the winner in the quarter mile!). I love the subtle instantaneous control over hammer hardness, reverbs, modulation (if you like). The user interface is intuitive and very user friendly, fast, and yet utterly simplistic. There are plenty of adjustment parameters, but not overloaded. The three pedals work flawlessly, and I can’t wait to try a wah-wah pedal control on the electric pianos.

I also just bought the Motif xs7 to add a 76 note light keybed to my studio as well as the glorious samples. I also want to explore the world of motif sampling. I MIDI the CP-1 into the Motif and layer sounds as well as adding cross-string resonance with Pianoteq (see above post).

Yes, the CP-1 is a number one, class act, through and through. It’s the best deal I’ve purchased in a very long time. It’s a winner all around and for me a dream come true….until I own a Steinway B. :)

Michael (in Toronto)

I’ll be happy to send some studio pics soon. What’s the best way to upload to you?